Cavalorn ([info]cavalorn) wrote,
@ 2009-04-22 17:03:00
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MMO design ranting


Dear designers of large-scale triple-A MMOs,

There are two cardinal sins you keep committing. Please stop doing this.

Cardinal sin number one: giving low-level gear and loot such pathetic benefits that the player barely notices they are there.

I know what you were thinking. The player, you thought, has to feel the rags-to-riches joy of starting out with Disintegrating Socks, then getting Threadbare Socks, then Darned Socks, then Mediocre Socks, then Knitted Socks, then Thermal Socks, and ultimately Thick Thermal Socks with Epic Llamas On Them. If the low-level loot was actually worth a damn, then players would just hold on to it and never bother replacing it! Besides, it's good old-fashioned RPG style to let the players get +1 weapons at first, and then work all the way up to getting +5 weapons...

No. NO. AND NO.

Let me give a practical example. In Age of Conan (yes, I found the disks) I just looted an item as a level 6 Priest of Mitra. It was a 'Pirate's Ring'. It gave a stunning +0.5% Fire Resistance. That means that any incoming fire damage I took would be reduced by five percent of the total. Which in turn means that to derive any benefit whatsoever, I would have to be in a situation where fire damage was being taken, and where five percent of it was a crucial survival margin.

Another practical example. In City of Heroes, you get Training Enhancements as drops below level 10 or so. Each one increases the relevant aspect of a power by some nine per cent. If that weren't enough, the damn things become useless once you outlevel them.

Early loot should make a difference. It should make a BIG difference, because the early loot is what you get WHILE THE PLAYER IS STILL LEARNING THE GAME. If you want me to learn how important my Defence Rating (or whatever) is, then let me grab an item that boosts it, and let me see what happens when I'm using it and when I'm not. Do not, for the love of Gygax, give me a pair of flaky skid-marked goblin shorts (or game equivalent) which boosts my Turnip Evasion by 0.3%. I won't even notice I'm wearing them.

Here's the other reason why early loot should make a difference. The player will have scored some of their most meaningful victories in order to get it. Nobody wants to enter combat with the Ape King Boss, emerge triumphant, and then discover that your prize is a bunch of frigging bananas. Give them a reward that doesn't insult them.

But oh, mister smart-arsed English game designer, if we make early game rewards significant and worth earning, then how do we stop players from just clinging to their early game loot and never getting rid of it? BY KEEPING ITS BENEFIT GENERIC AND LIMITING ITS USEFUL LIFESPAN, that's how. Define early loot not in terms of how useless it is in practice, but in terms of how basically useful it is and how long it will last you.

Players don't want to think 'I beat that boss and now I have a sword that will last me forever but does shit damage.' They want to think 'I beat that boss and now I have a really good sword, I wish I could keep it forever but I guess I'll just have to use it while I can.' Players will outgrow their early gear anyway, as they find new gear that better suits their specific needs.

Here is your second cardinal sin. Not explicating your game stats in the bloody game itself.

Again, Age of Conan is a major offender. Do not get me wrong. I love AoC, most of the time, and yes, I know there is a frigging humongous patch around the corner that will address a lot of this. But - and this ties in to what I have just said above - if I get an item that boosts a stat by X amount, kindly explain to me in very basic terms what that entails in practice. What the hell is 'Heroic Defence'? What's the benefit of 'Intelligence'? How does 'Magical Attack' work? Don't make me go and look it up on a third-party website. Let me find out by mousing over, or at the very least, by clicking on a Help button.



(21 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]amberdulen
2009-04-22 04:55 pm UTC (link)
There's a newish item in Runescape, a shield that can renew half of your prayer points once per day. Problem is, if you're in a situation where it's that important to save the space of a single vial of prayer potion, you're going to be wearing a way better shield.

(Just whining, really.)

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[info]alzm
2009-04-22 05:19 pm UTC (link)
I get what you are saying.
If I where to start my coc games with players that are new I always give them plenty of money.
The real beautiful stuff is when you defeat the evil cultists in their lair and roam around after safely detonating the bomb they have wired into their leader under a large shitter in a square somewhere. Then you get the magickal mollifier or something neat and ofcourse cursed. After that you get to the order of silver twilight, having proven your stuff and ofcourse seeing your stats, otherwise the gamers always demand to know what the hell the rolling is all about any way :), and find magickal items you can somewaht safely improve by improving magickal skills...
If in the end you get to nuke cthulhu with a magickal pipe bomb made of indecently clad naked ladies then well.
Cthulhu is already green and now he glows in the dark!
Muhahahahaha

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[info]rat_bastard
2009-04-22 05:27 pm UTC (link)
If you're running a COC game where players gladly take possession of magical items, then you're doing something wrong. :P

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[info]alzm
2009-04-23 06:34 am UTC (link)
True, but then we all have to start somewhere.

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[info]erjholton
2009-04-22 06:05 pm UTC (link)
Or you could play EVE, where this kind of itemisation is effectively moot, and large amounts of the maths behind the mechanics have been laid bare, either by the players, or by the devs themselves.

Why is that kind of itemisation moot? Well, the vast majority of the functional gear that is used - and lost - on a daily basis is player made and sold. There are some intermediate mob drops, generally used by people who don't have character skills for Tech 2, and some high-end stuff from rare spawns, but that gear is rarely used day-to-day due to cost and risk factors.

As an aside, it looks like EQ2 has learned a lot about early itemisation as well. Early items - especially 'mastercrafted' tradeskill gear (stuff made using rare components) - got significantly tweaked upwards a year or so ago. However, game mechanics are still somewhat obfuscated compared to EVE though.

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[info]sk4p
2009-04-22 06:54 pm UTC (link)
> Or you could play EVE

... where it's a grind-fest, other players can take your stuff, and your skill progression is rewarded by spending time logged out.

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[info]elffin
2009-04-22 08:54 pm UTC (link)
And being successful requires the kind of skills with a spreadsheet that would net you a job working for a government finance auditor's office.

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[info]erjholton
2009-04-22 11:33 pm UTC (link)
Depends how you want to play it. You don't need spreadsheets to shoot people.

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[info]erjholton
2009-04-22 11:32 pm UTC (link)
> where it's a grind-fest

Only if you want to play it like that, and grind-play in other MMOs is far, far worse,

> other players can take your stuff

Yes, but then you can take other players' stuff; no-one is forcing you to play a victim, except perhaps you.

> and your skill progression is rewarded by spending time logged out

My goodness, I've not seen someone miss the point of EVE's skill system quite this badly in a long time.

Having played other MMOs where skill progression is a mindlessly frustrating exercise in button mashing, EVE's skill progression system is a breath of fresh air. I won't bother going over it here; head to Massively and read this two part article about it.

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[info]the_axel
2009-04-22 06:22 pm UTC (link)
I think WAR does a good job of this.

Stuff & levelling boosts stats.
Most of the mechanics say
My attack score minus your defence score gives a % mod to my damage, etc.

A low level character has stats around 100, so a +10 thingy is worth having, a +20 is excellent and +30 is brilliant.

A high level character has stats around 500 so the equivalent loot offers +100, +200, +300.

The cooler the loot, the bigger the impact. Common gear warrants upgrading every couple of levels, incredibly rare stuff is worth hanging onto for 7-8.

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[info]cavalorn
2009-04-22 06:50 pm UTC (link)
Yes, WAR does an excellent job of this. I was ecstatic when I got some quality loot from public quests.

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[info]serpentstar
2009-04-22 10:07 pm UTC (link)
You still playing WAR, Ade? What server?

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[info]cavalorn
2009-04-22 10:10 pm UTC (link)
I've reinstalled it, but I haven't resubscribed... yet.

Almost certainly will in the next couple of days, though.

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[info]serpentstar
2009-04-22 10:13 pm UTC (link)
Ace. :)

Well, all the cool kids are still on Burlok for Order characters. I've moved my Destro ones to Eltharion, but I'm not playing 'em much. On Burlok, though, look out for Eyulf in Tier 4, Jolfhiele in Tier 3, Limrelle in Tier 2... and I can't remember the name of my Tier 1 character...

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[info]cavalorn
2009-04-22 10:15 pm UTC (link)
Oh gawd, I barely scratched the surface of Order. Much more absorbed in running around doing hot dark elf chick stuff.

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[info]serpentstar
2009-04-22 10:17 pm UTC (link)
I did that for aaaaaggggeeees with my Witch Elf, but then they shut down the only non-Burlok, non-open-RVR, roleplaying server... so I moved to the non-Burlok, open-RVR, roleplaying server... and then they shut that one down too. So she's no longer on a roleplaying server, and I've not quite been able to face playing her for a bit.

Plus, well, my Dwarf Engineer is so much fun...

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[info]unagothae
2009-04-22 06:58 pm UTC (link)
THANK YOU!

I played WoW a freakin YEAR before I even learned what stats were. It took me another six months to figure out why they were important and what they did. During the entire four years that I played, I played my first ten levels naked because gear made NO DIFFERENCE in my skills or survivability. I played my teen levels in stuff I bought off of a vendor because it was better than the loot drops and quest rewards. After that, I used my high level character to farm gear that was the appropriate level for my character because that gear only dropped in areas ten levels too high for my character and I didn't feel like spending 90% of my game time dead and running back to my body.

Killing leve 50 mobs for level 35 gear drops is fucking ridiculous. Fighting in an area that's my level or slightly better and getting drops I could have used ten levels ago, but are basically meaningless now is stupid.

But hey, it made the Auction House insanely profitable and that's what the game is all about, right? Earning piles of gold so that you can afford to buy gear the appropriate level and stats for you on the Auction House.

If I didn't enjoy the game, I wouldn't have played for so long, but even a noob like me could tell the dynamics were totally fucked.

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[info]canticle
2009-04-22 10:59 pm UTC (link)
At least in WoW low level rewards served a purpose in that you could Disenchant them for materials.

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[info]morbid_curious
2009-04-22 09:49 pm UTC (link)
Excellent rant. Bookmarked, for dissemination to other MMO devs.

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[info]rapier1
2009-04-22 10:04 pm UTC (link)
Actually, I'd just like a MMO that didn't end up being all about the ph4t l3wt. The whole quest for gear thing just gets old after a while.

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[info]hikari_neko
2009-04-23 03:29 pm UTC (link)

I never could get in to AoC. I think because I didn't really know anyone - most of my guild had pissed off to higher level areas by the time I got round to playing; I don't get much time to play games any more.



Which is why I go "huzzah!" to this post; when I can play games, I would like for them not to suck so much.



Don't get me started on grinding.

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